I saw on the internet a internet moderator edit a post to remove the words: "the Noble Eifghtfold Path a path of celibacy".
Is the Noble Eifghtfold Path a path of celibacy?
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I won't dispute whether the monastic life is compatible with the N8P -- why would you question that? But I deleted that sentence of yours there -- and more especially another one in the same paragraph -- as irrelevant to the question and potentially unwelcoming to the OP.– ChrisW ModCommented Dec 28, 2019 at 23:10
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2the irony of complaining about "white and Semitic" buddhists while deciding on your beliefs from a text rather than extant religious traditions, is absurd– user2512Commented Jan 2, 2020 at 9:23
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3 Answers
And what is right action?
Katamo ca, bhikkhave, sammākammanto?
Avoiding killing living creatures, stealing, and sexual activity.
Yā kho, bhikkhave, pāṇātipātā veramaṇī, adinnādānā veramaṇī, abrahmacariyā veramaṇī—
Abrahmacariyā = celibacy
Concise Pali English Dictionary brahmacariyā feminine religious life; complete chastity.
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When the OP asks on this site, "Is it permissible for a Buddhist lay follower to discuss...?" -- in a question about something harmless like the Vinaya and making fruit allowable -- then I don't think that is the right time to reply, "The NEP is a path of celibacy and not for white feminists". Your arguing that your statement is true does not justify it as being beneficial, agreeable to others, and said at the proper time.– ChrisW ModCommented Dec 29, 2019 at 7:06
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In context those phrases contradicted all five of the categories of "Unacceptable Behavior" as defined in the Code of Conduct -- starting with "subtle put-downs", and ending with "harassment". And new users especially shouldn't have to tolerate that -- it would be wrong of me not to edit at least that much. Perhaps other comments too about "feminists" were also off-topic in that answer -- but as I said the OP's private life and person especially are not for you to comment on (speculate about, insinuate) in this context.– ChrisW ModCommented Dec 29, 2019 at 7:15
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Very fertile imagination there Chris. I think this forum is for learning about Buddhism. As I posted, the Vinaya is for monks. It is not for laypeople. Commented Dec 29, 2019 at 9:28
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ChrisW. Your edit "only relatively few laypeople follow the Noble Eightfold Path, and especially the Vinaya." shows you might need a holiday. Lay people do not follow the Vinaya. Commented Dec 29, 2019 at 9:37
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ChrisW. My answer was approved by at least 1 member, probably more. Its a good answer. You should learn from it. Commented Dec 29, 2019 at 9:42
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Yes I noticed that when you posted your previous comment, and have edited. It was late last night. I still think it was inappropriate to reply with remarks about sex and gender to that question of the OP's, on this site.– ChrisW ModCommented Dec 29, 2019 at 9:42
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ChrisW. It appears Buddhism may not be suitable for you because the Buddha gave many many different teachings relating to different genders. Commented Dec 29, 2019 at 9:44
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I'm talking about the context, which might be perceived as hostile to the OP -- like, "You're a woman, you're white, you're probably not celibate, and so ... no -- you're not allowed to ask." I decided that was unacceptable.– ChrisW ModCommented Dec 29, 2019 at 9:48
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Sorry Chris but the poster called herself a "white woman", which gave the impression she was not Asian and thus not familiar with monkish culture. You seem to be spirally down the abyss of Cultural Marxism. Commented Dec 29, 2019 at 9:49
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Indeed. And though I might understand or tolerate what you were saying, I didn't think she should be expected to. The site's CoC says, "Focus on the content, not the person" -- all aspect of her person are off-topic. Speaking of which perhaps you ought to stop making some insinuations/accusations/speculations about other users too.– ChrisW ModCommented Dec 29, 2019 at 10:00
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For me, the poster who called herself "some American white lady" appeared quite fixed or firm in her views. Personally, I imagine she is well-educated and assertive. However, you appear to be treating her as a weakling victim. To me, your attitude appears very sexist & belittling. Myself, I treated her as an intellectual equal. Commented Dec 29, 2019 at 10:01
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She was here to ask a question. And you are required to "be nice" and "welcoming" and so on -- and implying "no you can't ask" and "because of gender" was unacceptable IMO. I fear I'm already too tolerant of some of what you post e.g. that other users find your answers and comments difficult to tolerate -- I think that this case and with a new user was something which I had to edit -- that if I didn't edit that then this site would be no 'better' than unmoderated. Would you accept that, or shall we ask for a second opinion?– ChrisW ModCommented Dec 29, 2019 at 10:12
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Again, you appear to be imagining things. You appear to not believe in equality. My post was nice. My post answered the questions in a similar manner or tone in which the questions were asked. Thats it. Commented Dec 29, 2019 at 10:12
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To end, Chris. You are definitely wrong here. The questioner even referred to ""Twitter feminism"" in her question yet you say I was sexist for referring to "feminism" in my answer; even though my reply was directly about her question, using the same terminology as her question.. Sorry Chris but your judgment here is seriously wrong in my opinion. The suttas are clear about the destination of puthujjana that revile Noble Ones. Take care friend. If you need someone to talk to, you are always welcome to Skype me. I am a Buddhist. I have compassion. Best wishes Commented Dec 29, 2019 at 10:17
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My belief is that the "person" asking is off-topic on this site (except to whatever extent they ask about that). We're invited to explain a subject (e.g. the Vinaya) and not to criticise the person asking, not to say they cannot ask -- and not to even comment unasked on their gender (nor their race, religion, or even age and marital status), which could risk being taken as at least a "subtle put-down" and possibly worse.– ChrisW ModCommented Dec 29, 2019 at 10:26
You're talking about this edit.
I decided I had to delete this which you wrote in that paragraph:
The Vinaya is for monks & nuns rather than for white & semitic feminists
I thought that could be misunderstood, and considered racist, and unwelcoming to the OP, and was not a necessary part of answering their question.
The post-edit version was kinder and clearer IMO. In any case the Help says ...
No subtle put-downs or unfriendly language
No name-calling or personal attacks. Focus on the content, not the person.
Be nice
... and so on. So I edited (and as little as I could, but what I felt I was required to).
Your answer was already commenting kind of rudely about "women" and "nuns". In that context, and while I was editing the above, I decided to delete what you were saying about "celibacy" as well:
- Because that isn't relevant to the OP's question
- Because the OP's private life is not for you to speculate about or comment on !
- Because the OP might misunderstand your message as, "the Buddha Dhamma isn't for you, and neither is this this Buddhism.SE site a place where you are allowed to ask a novice question"
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jews do experience racism– user2512Commented Jan 2, 2020 at 9:19
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and no-one does dog whistle insanity quite like an anti-semite– user2512Commented Jan 2, 2020 at 13:42
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1Yes I'm pretty sure it risks being experienced as racism. And I try to avoid labelling people, am I right? I felt it was my duty to delete that text-fragment, a) off-topic b) personal and therefore off-topic c) easy to misunderstand at best, even if we assume "good faith" d) unfortunate in that specific context (as a immediate reply to that part of the OP's question) e) an inappropriate way to say that to someone who's a new user and a self-professed novice.– ChrisW ModCommented Jan 2, 2020 at 14:12
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i think you did the right thing tbh. anyone who complains about e.g. white and irish people is kinda off, imho– user2512Commented Jan 2, 2020 at 14:15
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Even though you were factually correct about celibacy, the answer's tone was rather judgemental and inflammatory, borderlining on scandal-seeking. ChrisW was right, and within his permissions as moderator, to edit those parts away to moderate the conversation.
